I was checking the ld4all forums as I occasionally do, and I came across this exciting new technique created by Jayster. The idea is an old one, (alert yourself that you’re in a dream with outside stimulus) but the execution is a new take on things.
The exact method is still being refined and retested, but overall it shows promise. The idea is to wear a vibrating watch throughout the day and perform a reality check every time it goes off. Once you have a reflex established, it should filter into your dreams. So as you sleep, your watch goes off, and your reflex causes you to reality check in the dream. Presto chango, you’ve got a lucid dream.
Another forum member, Rarebreed, is working on creating a device specifically for this technique. It seems unclear if this will be available for purchase, but it is possible. More likely Rarebreed will post the steps he went through for anybody who wants to build one for themselves. There is also another watch on the market that already fits the description of the “lucid watch” fairly well, but it is priced at around 70 USD.
If you’re thinking that this sounds very familiar to the lucid mask project I did a while back, you’re right, it’s very similar. Here’s why I believe this has more potential for success:
This is a way to automatically associate reality checking with the stimulus. The flashing lights for the mask was something you had to ingrain separately.
An isolated vibration is a sign that you encounter rarely. I know, cell phones are a big exception, but if you wear the watch around your ankle or your wrist, you’ll come to associate it with only the sensation in that area, and how often does your left ankle vibrate? I thought so.
It’s fairly easy to fall asleep wearing. The lucid mask was abominable in this regard. Falling asleep as per the timer’s requirements, let alone staying asleep was a huge challenge. Sleeping through the night with the thing staying on your my was something I’ve only accomplished about twice out of my 30+ trials.
It’s highly customizable. You can decide how often you want it to go off, and for how long. This is important because it seems everybody has their quirks when it comes to sleep.
I’m looking forward to seeing how some other people do with this method, as well as Rarebreed’s progress in building a device. Perhaps this is a breakthrough technique, although I’m a bit of a skeptic when it comes to those at this point. This isn’t to say there aren’t great systems for achieving lucid dreams, (MILD and Infinity come to mind) but to say that are no simple, reliable, and easy methods for inducing lucid dreams, at least that I am aware of.
Let’s hope this is the first!
-Hatter
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I’d love to hear your thoughts after you’ve tried this method. I wish it would work for me but I’m a very light sleeper and even the slightest vibration or noise wakes me up at night. A vibrating watch would wake me up instead of triggering lucidity. Reality checks seem to work best for me when I use triggers that are directly related to my personal dream symbols (the things that appear often in my dreams).~ Kris
That’s one of the issues they ran into. The length of vibration was waking up the guy who initially thought of this technique. The device that’s being developed is adjustable, or is planned to be I’m fairly sure. Maybe just a half second or so of vibration for light sleepers.
-Hatter
What would be really cool is if the watch itself could be combined with a method of detecting REM like the DreamLight uses.So, you go into REM, then the watch goes off. And while we’re at it, make it so the intensity of the vibration diminishes proportionately with the level of sleep you’re in. So, if the rem detector could tell by the quality of eye movements that you were coming up TOO FAR out of REM, like in Kris’ case, it could vibrate much softer.If only I knew how to make that work.
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HeyBill,
I think those suggestions are excellent! Implementing it might be difficult, because I can only think of two ways of detecting REM: GSR (galvanic skin response) and and literal REM moving eye detection. Both are tricky for different reasons. GSR involves hooking up sensors to the skin, instantly making this a lot more complicated. Problems keeping them on, keeping them accurate, and keeping it comfortable are big. I think the best way would be a stretchy material, perhaps an elastic band, with the GSR sesor on it around the palm.
The REM detector would probably involve a mask with IRLEDs to detect when there is a lot of movement. (Infared, aka nonvisible light) This kind of defeats the purpose of the vibration though, you might as well have flashing LEDS. It also brings the mask back into play.
Not saying these are the only ways, I’m sure there’s more creative ones, but these are the only methods I’ve seen used. I would love to see those features worked into another version. I think we’ll be lucky to see a working prototype though. (Not to say anything about rarebreed’s skill, his prototype looks promising, just that projects like these seem to die for some reason)
I really like your idea though, that would be a big improvement.
-Hatter
Hm, well, after hearing you say that, I suppose I should push ahead with this project and at least get instructions put up for people to build their own. GSR is a good idea, but I have yet to see it implemented successfully for tracking REM. I think one of the main reason these projects die off it that the creators either dont have the electrical knowledge and run into obstacles; or they do and have other projects they would like to be working on. For me, it is the second one….that and school of course. I am glad to read all the nice things you had to say about the project though; support goes a long way in getting progress to continue.-rarebreed
Sorry to post a second comment. I looked up GSR and it does look like there is some promise there, but is a bit tricky to implement. Honestly, my interest in this project really is dwindling quite fast. So my question to you is what I need to get put up on the internet? That or motivate me to continue with this project, lol.
There is already a watch that supposedly detects when you’re having an "almost awake" moment, and it has some other interesting features too. It’s called the Sleeptracker. My company tested the first version of the watch back in November of 2005 but the manufacturer recently released a new version with improved features. The first version didn’t have a vibrating alarm but the second version has a Vibrate setting. The watch was designed to help people wake up in the morning when they’re already in one of their "almost awake" stages instead of jolting people awake when they’re in a deeper stage of sleep. It wasn’t really designed to trigger lucid dreaming but it definitely could be used for that purpose. It also helps in another way because it tracks your sleep data. You can review the data to find out what time of night each of your lighter sleep stages occurred, how long each stage was, etc. When I tested it, it helped me determine the exact time of night I was most likely to be in REM sleep, which helped with the planning of other lucid dreaming techniques. I suppose you could train yourself to use the vibrating alarm as a trigger for lucid dreams, and then after tracking your sleep data for a couple of weeks to get a baseline and determine when you’re most likely to be in REM sleep, you could set the alarm to go off during that time to trigger a lucid dream. You set the alarm for a range of time and it’s supposed to go off only when it detects you’re in a lighter stage of sleep, so if you happened to not be in an REM stage at the designated time then the alarm wouldn’t go off until it sensed you’d reached the REM stage. The primary drawback is that it doesn’t operate based on eye movement. It senses lighter sleep via some other means. It’s also a bit pricey — $179 for the new version and $149 for the original version. ~ Kris
Hey Rarebreed,
I did some research on that watch that Kris was talking about, and it looks like it functions by using an accelerometer. Simple enough. The only trick there would be figuring out what amount of movement corrosponds to light sleep, but after programming whatever microcontroller you’re using to that amount, it shouldn’t be too bad. GSR would be a pain to implement. I should also note that these were suggestions for on down the road, to improve it once you had already gotten some results with it. I wouldn’t worry about putting them in from the get go, especially if you’re having motivation issues. Keep up the good work! I’m tracking your progress, it’s a new avenue of lucid dreaming, so keep going!
Hey Kris,
That watch is tempting, I must say. I’ve been looking for some way to chart my sleep cycles for a while now, and I’m glad there’s a way besides a full EEG. Granted this is much less precise. As I mentioned to rarebreed, it looks like they use accelerometers,
which just measure acceleration. So they’re basically guessing that
when you’re moving the most you’re in light phase. It sounds like it gets the job done though. I know I would use it for the alarm and sleep tracking features, I think it’s worth it for those alone. Thanks for the info!
-Hatter
Ah yes, I remember reading about that watch a while back. Yes, I believe it was done with accelerometers- which are actually quite cheap if you know where to look. Also quite easy to implement/record using a microchip. Yes, madhatter, I am having motivation issues…. the watch is just too bulky and the vibration too loud for me to wear it all the time. I also have yet to hear of any success with a vibild besides jayster’s initial few. Ive also been having too much fun with another project of mine to really stop and experiment/fix up this one. A new avenue of lucid dreaming? honestly I dont see why such great faith in this new project….but Ill look into what I can do to continue work on it. - rarebreed
Hey Rarebreed,
I think that it’s got such great potential because It’s very non-committal. Once it’s done, all you have to do is reality check when it vibrates, easy. Normally things like this can take a few weeks to a month to become developed as habits though, so it may take a while before you get results that way. The last thing you wanted to hear I suppose. Maybe it would be better to shelve it until you’re less occupied with your other project.
-Hatter
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